Jesus death until Pentecost

A few days ago I asked, how people were saved from the time Jesus died and Pentecost.   The Bible tells us the Old Law was fulfilled when Jesus died and was no longer in operation. The Bible also tells us Jesus' church was established on Pentecost. We can hardly deny that defines a 50 day period when people could look to neither.   My question was based on false premises.   Premise 1: the Bible is a history of all mankind.   Premise 2: the only way to have an opportunity to be saved was to be a descendant of Abraham and Sarah.   When God selected Abraham and Sarah he selected the family through whom the Messiah would come he did not doom the rest of the world to Hell. Don't forget Ishmael was as much a child of Abraham as was Isaac and God blessed Ishmael and his mother.   God worked with Abraham's and Sarah's descendants and over the generations narrowed his selection of the families through whom Messiah would come. The Bible does not support the idea that not being selected doomed one to Hell. God continued to narrow his selection until when the fullness of time had come, He sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law.   At this point we had three groups: descendants of Abraham who were selected, descendants of Abraham not selected and those not descendants of Abraham. Paul told the church in Rome about Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires, they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. The term gentiles would include Abraham's descendants via Hagar as well as those not descended from Abraham, would they not? And just maybe until Cornelius, gentiles still had a parallel way to please God. Surely when Jesus sent the Apostles with the instructions, "Go nowhere among the Gentiles and enter no town of the Samaritans, but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel" he was not dooming the Gentiles living at that time to Hell.   So, no gap just another, not often considered, way to please God, temporarily of course until Pentecost.

Edification or Worship

Based on what I read the New Testament I believe the purpose of our assembly is to edify and build up the congregation as well as encourage each other to love and good works. Historically we get our method of sit and listen from our Catholic and Presbyterian friends and our stoicism from our founders the Campbells, Stones and the like. I am being sarcastic. What we do is, at least to me, perfectly logical. We meet to remember Jesus who died for us. We meet on the day on which he conquered death. We naturally talk with God. Singing is an appropriate vehicle for admonishing and encouraging each other. Asking each other if we remember to include God in our lives is more comfortably said in the song "Did You Think to Pray" than just straight-out asking the question.  While we are together why not study God's Word, not listen to a speech but STUDY God's Word. When we read God's Word we are accomplishing what early preachers were accomplishing when they were preaching to the UNSAVED and / or educating the newly saved. We should do the same for the UNSAVED and newly saved. Contributing to the support for the poor appears to have been a practice of Jesus and his apostles as well as with the early church and is not optional. Contributing to pay expenses is optional but anyone associated with the group should be willing to help the group pay its expenses. Over time, the Pharisees among us, have altered the meeting to suit their purposes and have changed the meeting to one where we go to church. Due to our carelessness our assemblies can be boring, nonproductive and frustratingly make those who have other things to do feel guilty because they want to leave when they are finished going to church.   If I am correct and we are there to encourage each other to love and good works, with the activities designed to edify or build up the church AND since we have the following examples: ·          Paul did not tell the good Christians in Corinth to start another congregation thus leaving the bad Christians ·          Jesus did not tell John to tell the good Christians in those Asian churches to go start other congregations also leaving those bad Christians AND ·          the fact that nothing can come between "me" and Jesus except "me" maybe, just maybe how we do things does not matter. Maybe a piano in the room is not soul condemning or even some of the other new things of which we are afraid. Realizing I am not all knowledgeable and what I think and the truth may not coincide I believe it is something Christians should think about and at least have a studied and informed view as to the purpose of assembling. One thing it is not is "going to church." Being more informal, having the room arranged comfortably, ensuring coming and going is easily accomplished and activities continuing in an orderly manner and etc may be things to consider.   If the assembly is worship how dare we permit interruptions of any kind. If the president of the United States, one we like, was in the room we would show more respect to him than we do to Jesus and to God in our assemblies assuming they are present. Many of those thinking they are there to worship are quite careless in their attitudes and what they permit and what they do not permit.

Jesus' death til Pentecost

Hi peoples:   The longer one is a believer the less one thinks like a non believer. We allow things that we do not understand to pass. How many of us while reading a book or newspaper, we come upon a word for which we do not know the definition, but we do not miss a step. We continue reading. We can do that for a book or newspaper but not the Bible, but we do.   Example:   How was one "saved" from the time Jesus died (before he arose) and the Day of Pentecost? The Old Law was fulfilled and no longer in affect and if the kingdom (the New) was not established until Pentecost how was one saved? Jesus (the testator KJV) was dead; his testament (KJV), in force.    Jesus was around during 40 or so of those days but no matter the Old was gone and the New not yet established. Surely all those people in the city on Pentecost did not have access to Jesus' personal pronouncement of the forgiveness of their sins.   Don't think of it as answering another of my niggling questions, what will you say when a 'non believer' asks and why will you say it?

Hi Al,   Recently I read an article in January Gospel Advocate entitled Religious Revolution by Ken Joines.   In the article Ken mentioned "We need to keep our worship simple and biblical." I sent him a note and asked him why we consider what we do in our assemblies worship? He may answer eventually. Or maybe not.   I see nothing in the New Testament that commands or even suggests we worship. Jesus told the woman at the well, "... true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, ..." Paul said everything we do when we assemble must be for the building up of the "church."  Whoever wrote Hebrews said we meet to encourage each other to love and good works; nothing about worship except Paul's comment to the church in Rome that presenting our bodies a living sacrifice is reasonable service or worship. How is praying for the sick worship, or listening to the preacher worship (edification, hopefully) or how is singing to each other worship? Jesus told his followers to eat and drink in remembrance of Him. Remembering and worship are different functions, aren't they? We attend memorial services and do not consider that worshiping the deceased.   With the Christian Chronicle reporting the Church of Christ is shrinking it may be a good time to accept that our assemblies do not edify, do not encourage love and good works,  and  certainly do not encourage evangelism and have not done so for a very long time, if ever, since the first century.   If our assemblies were accomplishing what they should maybe our concerns would be different. Length of services is a subject of discussion in all denominations and sometimes heated discussions so in that area we are all the same, enough is enough.   Some of our neighbors in Ohio were German Baptists, Old Order. Sunday was their day. Their assembly would last 2, 3 hours. They would then adjourn to houses where they spent the day, together. They liked being together. They had to. They were a minority. If they were to see another German Baptist during the week they had to make an effort and they did. Some of us have Wednesday evenings. Most do not.   Do you ever wonder what the church could do if we really liked each other? At the GSMCOC specifically try to get three families together other than on Sunday. We do not have time for each other. Don't people who like each other make time to get together?   Maybe if we really understood the purpose of the assembly and the assembly accomplished what it was supposed to maybe our concerns would be different.   Sometime could you explain the verses that cause us to consider our assemblies "worship" and how much worship is not enough and how much is too much? Regards, John Jenkins 865-803-8179 cell Gatlinburg, TN Email: jrjenki@yahoo.com  Website: http://www.greenbriersolutions.com  Blog: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ Gregor Mendel Giving Peas a Chance Since 1856

Gospel Advocate October 2005 and January 2009

Hi Ken,   I was reading January Gospel Advocate and saw your October 2005 article published as Religious Revolution. Nice article.   I think it is always good to question what we do and why we do it so we know what and why. Many do neither.   One of the problems we have caused ourselves is using versions with outdated language. I have to read very carefully Thomas Jefferson's letters because of the wordage. Insisting on "thee and thou" reminds me of the Catholics hanging on to the Latin language. They admitted they did not understand but they just loved the way it sounded. The word Church that James insisted be retained is another problem. Anyone can call their group a church so it means nothing but we hang on to it. Similar to baptism means nothing to anyone and everything to everyone, the word is immersed. Many if not most of the current problems have been self imposed not the least of which is a horrible lack of knowledge of what the Bible says. If one is not going to read the Bible they can do anything, to them, nothing is wrong.   Another issue is differentiating between what is different and what is sin. For years preachers have raised one hand when they declared "I baptize you in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit." If preachers or at least some, can do it why not the lay people? Clapping is another issue. Is it sin? If yes it should be taught as such with Bible support. If not, we should forget it.   In the article you mention "We need to keep our worship simple and biblical." Why do we consider what we do in our assemblies worship?   I see nothing in the New Testament that commands or even suggests we worship. Jesus told the woman at the well, "... true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, ... God is spirit, and those who worship him must worship in spirit and truth." One cause of problems may be that most Christians have no idea what that means and they do care enough to find out.   Paul said everything we do when we assemble must be for the building up of the "church."  Whoever wrote Hebrews said we meet to encourage each other to love and good works. But nothing about worship except Paul's comment to the church in Rome that presenting our bodies a living sacrifice is reasonable service or worship. How is praying for the sick worship, or listening to the preacher worship (edification, hopefully) or how is singing to each other worship? Jesus told his followers to eat and drink in remembrance of Him. Remembering and worship are different functions, aren't they? We attend memorial services and do not consider that worshiping the deceased.   With the Christian Chronicle reporting the Church of Christ is shrinking it may be a good time to accept that our assemblies do not edify and do not encourage love and good works and certainly not evangelism and have not done so for fifty years or more if ever since the first century.   The saved have concentrated more on getting Sunday "worship" right and as the Pharisees neglected what is truly important.   As Sesame Street changed the way teachers teach. Same reading writing and arithmetic but teaching in a different way. Maybe the church should look into what that means for the saved and how they can relate to the not saved.   Nice article but I do not understand why we think Sunday is worship. If you have the time and are so inclined I would appreciate your reasoning.   Thanks again.     Another time I will send an email on the infallible word of God. Which version are you referencing? Some versions are anything but infallible.   As George told Gracie, Goodnight Gracie.....   Regards, John Jenkins 865-803-8179 cell Gatlinburg, TN Email: jrjenki@yahoo.com  Website: http://www.greenbriersolutions.com  Blog: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ Gregor Mendel Giving Peas a Chance Since 1856

Causes of Failure

fail? Because they create and live in organizations where mistaken pictures of reality take hold, delusional policies and attitudes protect that skewed reality from careful scrutiny, organizational procedures designed to manage information, risk, and people break down, and leaders who adopt spectacularly unsuccessful habits magnify all of these problems. ·          Choose not to cope with innovation and change ·          Misread the competition ·          Brilliantly fulfill the wrong vision ·          Cling to an inaccurate view of reality ·          Ignore vital information Based on ---Sydney Finkelstein Why Smart Executives Fail

Welch Rules

Face Reality: Leaders who avoid reality are doomed to failure. Simple as that. Having faced reality, act on that reality. Too many leaders prefer to dwell on reality as they define it, but they operate under an illusion. Those who truly face reality cannot stop there. They must act on that reality and adapt their strategies to that reality. Face reality and there's a chance you can succeed. Stick your head in the sand and there's no question that you will fail. Facing reality may be the hardest thing a leader ever has to do. But it's essential. Based on ---Robert Slater's Get Better or Get Beaten!

Why Is Strategic Planning Important?

"Where there is no vision the people perish." Unless there is planning and strategy, it has been my experience nothing happens. Think about the new Christians in your congregation. How did they come to Christ? Congregations should develop strategic plans. Strategic planning helps us toward our goal, helps us devise means and develop grids to measure effectiveness. ---Randy Becton Everyday Evangelism

Who is Our Target?

Matthew 15:24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel." Galatians 2:7 On the contrary, when they saw that I had been entrusted with the gospel to the uncircumcised, just as Peter had been entrusted with the gospel to the circumcised I once saw a Peanuts cartoon that describes the evangelistic strategy of many churches. Charlie Brown was practicing archery in his backyard. Instead of aiming at a target, he would shoot an arrow at his fence and then walk over and draw a target around wherever the arrow stuck. Lucy walked up and said, "Why are you doing this, Charlie Brown?" He replied without embarrassment, "This way I never miss!" Unfortunately the same logic is behind a lot of churches' evangelist outreach efforts. We shoot arrows of good news into our community and if they happen to hit anyone we say, "That was our target all along!" There is little planning or strategizing behind our efforts---we don't aim at any specific target. We just draw a bull's-eye around whomever we reach and settle for that.  This is an incredibly callous approach to evangelism. Bringing people to Christ is too important a task for us to have such a casual attitude toward it. ---Rick Warren The Purpose Driven Church

Two Basic Attitudes

There are really just two basic attitudes in the matter of hearing. One is the attitude of the closed mind. It is an attitude of stubbornness on many occasions, with man's pride closing the door of his heart. Often, it is also a matter of his being too busy. There is an interesting story about Robert Fulton, inventor of the steamboat. Napoleon, busy with his own plans, said that he could give Fulton only two minutes of his time. These two minutes were hardly enough time for Fulton to talk convincingly of the possibility of the steamboat.  Napoleon was not convinced. How different the outcome of his invasion of England might have been if he had only taken more time to hear Fulton talk of his strange invention. How different the lives of many might be and how different their eternal destiny, if they would only take more time to listen when God speaks. The other attitude is that of the open mind. It is an attitude of willingness to consider whatever is presented. It is and attitude involving the willingness to take time for whatever one is called upon to examine. In 1 Thessalonians 5:21 the apostle Paul wrote, "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The best advice we can give is to prove or examine all things and then accept that which is good. Preaching involves a double responsibility. To the preacher, there is the responsibility to know God's word, to keep himself a fit channel for its proclamation, and to declare God's truth clearly and faithfully. There is also a responsibility on the part of the listener, To the hearer, the responsibility is to attend to the message carefully, to understand what God's will is, and then to obey God's commands. As Jesus said, "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."  Matthew 7:21. ---    Batsell Barrett Baxter Family of God

Attitudes Toward God

When the lawyer tested Jesus by asking what the great commandment was, Jesus answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it: You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the Law and the Prophets." Matthew 22:36-40. Christians today need an all-consuming love for God; He must be first in their hearts, soul and minds. Jesus demands a love for Himself greater than any other love. Christians must put away their selfishness and allow their love for Him to control their minds and behavior. Paul spoke of his consuming love for Christ in sacrificial terms when he said "It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.  Galatians 2:20. This crucifixion means that we die to ourselves so that we can live for our Lord. He is our first and last thought; He is our breath and food. We ought to sing with our lives as well as our lips, "He is my everything, He is my all."   ---Phil Sanders Adrift, Postmodernism in the Church

Spiritual Growth

Occasionally, some see GACS missions and service as a pleasant "feature" of our school life, something like an extra class or a new sport. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The Greater Atlanta Christian family has been involved in international missions for 12 years now, and many have been deeply affected. Not only do GAC students do God's bidding when they serve all over the world including here in the states, they are transformed by it themselves. There was a time when spiritual growth was seen as largely accomplished by information. Somehow, we thought - if we taught enough Bible facts, then children and adults would change. Yet Biblical stories, modern research, and our own experience teach us otherwise. GAC Trustee and local minister, Don McLaughlin, points to research that if you want to change a child forever, you can do it with information in 12 years. Or you can do by activation in less than three years. For over a decade we have encouraged students to participate in acts of service that impact their hearts. Our Bible teachers still cherish the Bible and point to it as holding the answers for this life and beyond. Now we're putting those "answers" to work. And while we shouldn't send 2nd graders to Kigali, there are scores of ways they can serve close to home, and in spirit, across an ocean. Remember, GAC is about transformation, not just information. ---David Fincher President, Greater Atlanta Christian Schools

The Assembly - Individual Worship

Assembly and worship are not equivalent terms. The word "worship" is frequently used in the New Testament to describe an action outside an assembly, as when the wise men came to Bethlehem and finding Jesus, "they bowed down and worshiped him" (Matthew 2:11,12), or when the man born blind had been healed (John 9:38), or when the disciples in Galilee met Jesus after the resurrection (Matthew 28:17).  Worship describes the expression of an attitude of heart characterized by awe, veneration, and respect. It always occurs individually, whether one is alone or in an assembly. ---Ted Waller Worship, Bowing at the Feet of God

Go and Do Likewise

"Do we really believe that Jesus expects us to go and do likewise? Jesus said we are to love God with all our heart, soul and mind and to love our neighbor as ourselves. When someone asked Him who our neighbor is, Jesus responded with the parable of the Good Samaritan. He told how the Samaritan put his own needs and agenda aside in order to help a stranger. Jesus told his followers to "go and do likewise". (Luke 10:25-37 In Shane Claiborne's book, the Irresistible Revolution, Claiborne poses the question, "What if Jesus really meant what he said?" Do I really believe that Jesus expects me to "go and do likewise" to others – even strangers – at my age (old or young) and with my busy schedule? Do we really believe?   "How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." Ann Frank. ---David Fincher President, Greater Atlanta Christian Schools

The spirit of the moment...

I was flipping channels looking for the UT game and landed on a channel of a "worship service." Has it ever struck you as incongruous that a church would televise a "worship" service? Does it fit with the spirit of the moment to have someone interrupt their "worshiping" to monitor technical equipment to display songs, or lessons, etc? Or if "worship" is occurring to have late comers arrive and work their way to an open seat bumping and stepping on other "worshipers" causing an end to their attitude of "worship" so they can get out of the latecomer's path?  If we are truly "worshiping" is it logical that an individual who is "up next" would stop "worshiping" to walk to the podium prior to that "worship" activity being completed as to be ready to do what he does?    Do we ever question what we do and if we should be doing it?     Regards, John Jenkins 865-803-8179 cell Gatlinburg, TN Email: jrjenki@yahoo.com  Website: http://www.greenbriersolutions.com  Blog: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ Gregor Mendel Giving Peas a Chance Since 1856

Leaving the Elementary Things

Hi Ray,   Now that your email is back.......   Last night, Ralph talked about getting past the elementary things which we will never do. Several reasons not the least of which is we are comfortable rehashing if baptism is important, is Bible study important and the like. We are uncomfortable talking about how to evangelize Pigeon Forge, getting our hands dirty with the poor, and on and on. Another uncomfortable subject is prayer. We do no know what the word means but we like it just the way it is.   When our grand daughter was beginning to talk she was taught to say please and thank you. Sometimes she would say please in such a way it was like a weapon. If she said please we had to do what she asked.   John recorded that in response to a question from Philip Jesus said to his disciples: "Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son." (John 14:13)   We have presumed that to mean we must say "In the name of Jesus" and if we say that phrase nothing else matters, not our attitude, not our request, not our intent, nothing. God must answer in the affirmative because we said the magic words and Jesus put no qualification on it.   It's like when a police officer says, "Stop in the name of the law." The police officer is saying that because he is standing in the place of the law and speaking on behalf of it. To the degree that he speaks for the law, he can enforce the law and has authority. When he steps outside of the law, he has lost his authority even though he still says, "Stop in the name of the law."   In the prayers of the Bible we never see a prayer that ends with the phrase "In Jesus' name. Amen," even though the same text teaches us to pray in Jesus' name. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to draw the conclusion that we are, first, to pray in the name of Jesus, and second, praying in the name of Jesus doesn't mean ending our prayer with the phrase "In the name of Jesus. Amen." It is never done in the New Testament.   Acting in the name of someone, in the sense that the Bible authors used it, was what the person stood for, the substance of their character, or their authority.     When we pray it might be better for us to drop the phrase "In the name of Jesus" altogether because generally we don't mean, "I am praying in the authority of Jesus Christ." Practically speaking, it means the prayer is over. That is the Christian exit. Amen.    "Grace to you and peace in the Lord Jesus Christ." That would be an example of a prayer that we see often at the beginning and sometimes at the end of Epistles. Paul says, "For this reason I bow my knees before the Father", he reflects a prayer there. "I pray that the eyes of your heart might be opened that we would understand the length and breadth and depth of the love of Christ which is beyond comprehension." Paul gives a prayer.