Does God Desert Christians?

When Christians blame God when something bad happens to them have they been taught that God has deserted them? If you listen to the prayers we thank God for food, for safe travel, for jobs, for our houses, health etc you get the picture. If it is true that God has provided those things when we do not have them apparently he has decided not to give them to us thus our bad times are his fault. Actually God has nothing to do with our physical status. He does not deserve credit nor does he deserve blame. What happens happens. Christians do not know what to believe. They are taught by leaders who do not spend much time in the Bible. They are taught opinions. They are taught biases. Christians themselves do not spend much time in the Bible so they are susceptible to being misled.

 

Has it occurred to you that you believe in a God who created humankind to require certain things such as oxygen, food, water, clothes and leaves it up to us to obtain the same? Has it occurred to you that God gave humankind a short life span in which we do not say nice things about God he will torture us for eternity? Has it occurred to you that you have food to eat in spite of God not because of him? In Genesis we see he punished all humankind by making it more difficult to grow what he designed us to require. Have you noticed how God never responds positively to prayers to restore amputated limbs; to cancers that do not respond positively to chemotherapy? Humankind is the only part of the creation that needs clothes and without which we would not survive? We thank God for food, which there is no reason to do, but we do not thank him for air or water.

 

Christians need to look in the bible for support for everything they believe and lacking support stop believing.

 

Galatians 5:6 Faith working through Love

 

 

Galatians 5:6

    For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith (4102-persuasion i.e. credence; conviction of religious truth or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher, reliance upon Christ for salvation,  gospel, truth itself, assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity) working through love (26-affection or benevolence, charity, dear, love).

 

To work through love is to work from a principle of love. If we love God, we seek to please him, do his will. The faith in God leads to the love of God because he loved us. Love to man leads us to do good to man. A faith that works by love leads one too do the will of God and to do good to his fellow men.

Without bible support where are we?

Do you ever wonder if this applies to today? "Does grace permit Christians to believe anything they like?

 

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 

 

    The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

Someone needs to ask the question.

Al has made presentations on evangelism many times with the same results. Must be frustrating.

 

This link us from early 2010 and I may have sent this to you before.

 

http://alumcave.blogspot.com/2010/02/for-your-cogitation-now-what.html

 

Groups need leaders. Groups need people to follow. Without leaders group thrash about. Daily we are enundated with commercials on television and radio and the internet. We have become so used to what we hear not being true it has seeped into our churches. Who believes what the preacer says. I realize I am part of the problem but to my knowledge Al has never done what he tells us we should be doing. Groups need leaders who lead by example.

 

People say "I can be a Christian without the church" and we say they cannot. I believe we can. Actually most of the people on the GSMCOC list believe they can and the rest of us agree because when they infrequently show up we act as if nothing is wrong. So the question we need to answer is: Specifically what does GSMCOC do to help its members be Christians? The responsibility of the group is to encourage the individual. The responsibility of the group is to provide motivation to the individual.

 

Interesting our pastor believing having "gospel meetings" is valuable enough to participate in them while at the same time not believing they are valuable enough for GSMCOC to participate. We are a group, we need leaders who will lead by example.

 

 

 

On the subject of evangelism:

 

Can we be saved even though we do not do what Al suggested this morning?

 

If we can, who cares about those not saved?

 

If we cannot we had better care,

 

Someone needs to ask the question.

 

 

 

P.S. When Sue handed Dottie the minutes of the ladies' meeting I told her she was making the Men's meeting look bad. She said "Yes I am." Actually her help is not needed. 

 

 

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"Our lives depend on decisions made by other people; we have no control over these decisions and usually we do not even know the people who make them. Our lives depend on whether safety standards at a nuclear power plant are properly maintained; on how much pesticide is allowed to get into our food or how much pollution into our air; on how skillful (or incompetent) our doctor is. . ."

 ---Ted Kaczynski, better known as the Unabomber

 

Christians must stop deluding themselves.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12  

 

    The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders,  [10] and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.  [11] Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false,  [12] in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness. 

The Curse of Certainty

At the close of the Constitutional Convention, Benjamin Franklin spoke to his fellow delegates. He called for a unanimous vote, even while acknowledging that he had his own reservations about some of its provisions. Yet he acknowledged his own fallibility and asked them to confront the danger of their certainty as well:

"Most men," he said, "think themselves in possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far error." Yet, "when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does..."

Too many of us are certain our political and policy views are perfection including our understanding of the scriptures. Franklin reminds us that a democracy depends not so much on perfect solutions as on humble collaboration. If they could listen, why can't we?

Lucky GSMCOC was not around in 1776

 

For a functional group to accept the minutes of the previous meeting the group first decides whether a quorum is present at the current meeting. With a quorum present, the secretary to the group reads the minutes aloud from the previous meeting, noting those in attendance and all actions that transpired. Discuss the minutes from the previous meeting, making appropriate corrections. Discussion should be factual and friendly, not opening up old debates or conflicts. The chairman of the meeting asks for a motion to accept the previous meeting's minutes as read or with discussed changes as noted. A second to the motion is required to be made by someone else.The previous minutes must be accepted before the current meeting can proceed. All attendees are asked to vote to accept the minutes. This is done through a show of hands, by voice or by the chairperson asking each attendee individually.

 

To my knowledge the Men's meeting has never been unable too approve minutes. I have no idea why they cannot this time but the chairman has shown himself to be not a leader but a follower unable to complete the simplest of tasks. He appears to defer to the pastor. If the men cannot come to a consensus on such a mundane item, whether or not the distributed minutes are correct or incorrect surely they cannot be expected to successfully agree on who is or is not qualified to be elder. The group is the epitome of the term dysfunctional.

 

If, as they say, "prayer works" I wonder why they did not ask him to help them come to a decision. After all they ask God to fix the election for president. If God cannot get minutes approved or disapproved he is probably over his head trying to fix an election. 

 

Imagine the status of the colonies if this group were the founding fathers.

 

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

 ---Albert Einstein

 

Is it unreasonable. . .

My mind has a tendency to meander especially during sometimes than others. . .

 

When God created humankind he built in certain requirements for humankind to exist such as oxygen, food etc. According to Christian teachings humankind originally was naked and apparently oblivious to that fact. At a point in time humankind became aware and began covering up.  Humankind is the only member of his creation requiring clothes. As originally made we are unable by nature able to survive. The current state of humankind is we require air to breath, food to eat, and clothing as a matter of life and death.

 

Is it unreasonable to expect God to provide what is necessary for his creation to survive or has God created humankind just so we can thank him for providing what he created us to require? Since he intentionally made growing food more difficult do we owe him thanks when we are successful in spite of his efforts?  What do Christians expect of God?

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"Americans can always be counted on to do the right thing...after they have exhausted all other possibilities." Winston Churchill

 

Why Did Jesus Live? or Why Did Jesus Die?

Have you noticed how we spend more time listening to others tell us what President Obama or Candidate Mitt Romney thinks on various issues than we do listening to Obama or Romney them self?

 

Do we spend more time listening to others (preachers, teachers, apostles such as Paul, etc.) tell us what Jesus said and thought than actually "listening" to what Jesus said? Is the message of Christianity how to do church?

 

Or is the Christian message about "Why Jesus died?" Is Christianity about providing for a better death, rather than life?

Could the real question be "Why did Jesus live?" Could the answer possibly provide the reason why we live.

The story called "gospel" / "'good news" is more than under-populating a place called 'hell' so that we might over-populate a place called "heaven." Fear of hell produces the very fear that the Bible tells us God, as Love, drives out.

Did Jesus die just to give us a better place to live?

 

 

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant." Helen Keller

 

"The questions you ask set limits on the answers you get." Temple Grandin

 

Does God Only Help Those Who Help Themselves?

In the past when I commented it would a long time before our congregation would have to act on faith I received several harsh responses from men who consider relying on God as a sin in that it tests God and additionally is bad business. They functionally believe God helps those who help themselves. They have never experienced having nothing.

 

 

Several months ago following the tornado in the Greenville area the men's meeting discussed helping the victims of that storm. Did they really need our help? Were others providing what was needed? What were the government and non government agencies doing? We have people in Greenville area, presumably Christians, who have no house, no clothes, no car, no drivers license, no credit cards, no bank cards, no water, no food and we sit in our multi-million-dollar building with an emergency fund wondering if those folks needed our help.

 

 

Instead of a no-end-in-sight class on the Holy Spirit a class on "what it means to depend on God" might be of some value.  What can we realistically expect of God?

 

 

In Matthew we read where Jesus sent the twelve out with the following instructions:

 

Acquire no gold nor silver nor copper for your belts, no bag for your journey, nor two tunics nor sandals nor a staff, for the laborer deserves his food. 

 

 

It appears the apostles were being sent out depending on God's people not God. I often hear Christians say they are the hands and feet of God to the lost.  That suggests God's response to prayers will come through his people not his direct intervention. People influenced by God doing what they believe God wants helping people. People doing what God wants them to do, promoting his agenda could be said to be God acting as Jesus called Peter Satan when Peter was promoting Satan's agenda by discouraging Jesus from his mission.

Believing Does Not Make Truth

 

 

Chickens accompanied Roman armies and their behavior was carefully noted before battle; A good appetite meant victory was likely.
 
Recently Al mentioned folks warned him about studying psychology etc in college because it would cause him to lose his faith? Many people believe too much education leads one away from God. While I do not believe that I do believe education leads one to thinking and for most people who consider themselves Christian that is a new and possibly threatening concept.
 
Research concludes teens do not believe a lot of what their parents believe concerning Bible, God, Jesus, Satan, heaven, hell, etc. Our eyes show us what the church is doing is not working and has not worked for quite a while.
 
Believing does not make something true. Remember Copernicus and the sun? Remember witch hunts? Remember the church and Galileo? Remember Zeus and Diana? How about the rabbit who believes if he cannot see the enemy the enemy cannot see him?
 
A couple of years ago I sent an email to a group of the men of GSMCOC suggesting an idea of reading one of LaGard Smith's books, After Life: A Glimpse of Eternity Beyond Death's Door and meeting to discuss his conclusions. Bob Keyser asked that I not begin a class at that time due do him preparing a series of lessons that would cover the same subject. No one was interested and Bob is still forecasting a series of lessons on the metaphysical.
 
Much of what religion teaches can be traced to religious leaders wanting to preserve clergy vs. laity, keeping the people afraid and subservient, maintaining the hierarchy, and keeping the status quo. What we believe about God suggests He created humankind, gave them a short life span during which if we do not say nice things about him will torture his creation for eternity. We believe God tests his people much like a parent who trips their child so the child will learn how he reacts to being tripped. We believe God enjoys being asked even when he never says yes. He especially enjoys repeated requests. He created humankind to require certain things for survival such as oxygen and food. Then he makes growing food diffcult and insists on being thanked when it grows.
 
Research shows the next generation is not accepting our interpretation of the bible or our interpretation of the purpose of assembling on Sundays and Wednesdays, our massive financial debt our purpose to exist.
 
P.s. 12 centuries ago the church considered the chicken special. In Leviticus 5:7 a guilt offering of two turtledoves or pigeons was acceptable if the sinner in question was unable to afford a lamb but nowhere does God request a chicken be sacrificed. Matthew 23:37 tells how Jesus likened his care for the people of Jerusalem to a hen caring for her brood. During the ninth century Pope Nicholas 1st decreed that a figure of a rooster should be placed atop every church as a reminder of how special the chicken is to God. Imagine the shock and dismay of the parents when the teenagers rejected their belief in the holy chicken.
 
What do we believe that is not truth?

Truth or Jibberish

I believe it was Cyrus who when he captured a people permitted them to retain their religion which he believed kept the captives docile. What one person believes is truth another considers gibberish i.e. Christians view of other religions so you cannot argue people out of their belief.

 

As one who does not believe God answers any prayers physically (I do not have a strong opinion concerning whether or not he answers in the spiritual realm) and is not responsible for the good things that happen to us nor the bad things I am baffled by a couple of comments in this morning's service. Al B mentioned the sick have become so numerous he had to cut down on his article and Bob A mentioned they had a "very productive" prayer session Saturday morning.  What is a productive prayer session?

 

When I became convinced that God does not answer prayers physically, after all Jesus said His kingdom is not of this world and if it was he would fight, and concluded others had no expectations I stopped attending Monday's prayer time. Of course I could be mistaken but I understand James to say anyone who prays and does not expect is unstable. Anyone can believe God can do something it takes real moxie to expect he will.

 

All these sick people; all these prayers; all these deaths; and no one appears to notice, no one notices.

 

Recently one of our nieces, 17-years-old, lost the sight in one of her eyes "Taxioplasmosis." She told my sister, her grandmother, she thought God was teaching her a lesson by bling her. We are careless with our language. This girl had either been taught or heard comments leading her to believe God would knock the wheels out from under her. We say God tests us. I do not believe that. Is God like a parent who trips one of their children so the child would learn how they would react to being tripped. Gibberish.

 

The reason children leave the church is when they become adults they discover most of what they have been taught is not true. We have to stop quoting the "corporate policy" and get back to reality. Some may not care if God never answers their prayers others when they find they have been duped all those years leave.

 

No need to reply unless you know how to identify a productive prayer session.

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant." Helen Keller

 

"The questions you ask set limits on the answers you get." Temple Grandin

 

COMFORTER

 

Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible based on the KJV identifies the word  "paracletos" found in John 14:16 and 26, 15:26 and 16:7 "comforter."

 

It means "one who is summoned to the side of another" to help him in a court of justice by defending him, "one who is summoned to plead a cause." There is no one word that can adequately translate paracletos. The word that probably comes closest is simply Helper.

 

Paul nowhere uses the word paracletos yet presents the idea it embodies when he speaks of the "intercession" both of Christ and the Spirit in Romans 8:27, 34.

 

The purpose is to help in any way possible.

 

1) A friend called in to help a person who is troubled or distressed or confused.

 

2) A commander called in to help a discouraged and dispirited army.

 

3) A lawyer, an advocate called in to help a defendant who needs his case pleaded.

 

What is the Alternative to being Naked?

 

Humankind is the only species created by God without a natural cover. Humankind cannot survive without unnatural clothing. Jesus says not to worry about what we wear but what alternative is there?

What Makes Christians Different?

Christians must have specific bible support for everything they believe. If they do not they are no different that Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists etc. To believe the bible is written by human beings divinely inspired is all that separates followers of Christ from all other religions.

PFJ Meeting

When the war was winding down and George Washington had returned to Mount Vernon his friend Marquis de Lafayette, who hated the practice of slavery, sent a letter suggesting a process by which slavery could be abolished. His suggestion was Washington would purchase an estate, free the Negroes and use them as tenants. If it was successful at Mount Vernon the practice could spread and eliminate slavery.

 

At the time Washington's economic well-being depended on slavery so whatever his theoretical sympathy with Lafayette's idea he could not have been thrilled with the timing.  Not wanting to disillusion his friend Washington replied:

 

"The scheme, my dear Marquis which you propose as a precedent to encourage the emancipation of the black people of this country…is striking evidence of the benevolence of your heart. I shall be happy to join you in so laudable a work, but will defer going into detail of the business till I have the pleasure of seeing you."

 

This was Washington's canny way of crediting Lafayette's noble project while also sidestepping any specific commitment to it.

 

Look back at the actions the men have undertaken to address the subjet of elders. A period of prayer followed by a delay of about a month waiting for Al to present his lesson on church leadership, followed by a period of prayer to permit the team to meet and formulate a plan to be presented at a future Men's meeting followed by a period of time to allow the congregation to submit names of possible candidates followed by a period of weeks or so to allow the team to vet the candidates followed by a period of more weeks to allow the candidates to be considered by the congregation followed by a men's meeting to decide how to tell the congregation there are no viable candidates or how the candidates will be anointed followed by a period of time to permit Al to develop an anointing ceremony.

 

The leaders lack of attending the assemblies is a hindrance to GSMCOC men attempting to move forward on such issues other than via the monthly Men's Meeting. I believe the initial period of prayer began in January it will easily be August or later before we know how things turn out. Eight months, are we men of action or what? What'd you think of the PFJ meeting? George Washington is not the only one who can credit an idea as well as sidestep commitment to it.

 

 

Thanks, John Jenkins
865-803-8179  cell
Gatlinburg, TN

Email: jrjenki@gmail.com
Blogs: http://littlepigeon.blogspot.com/ 
          http://alumcave.blogspot.com/

 

"People do not like to think. If one thinks, one must reach conclusions. Conclusions are not always pleasant." Helen Keller

 

"The questions you ask set limits on the answers you get." Temple Grandin

 

Is the Church of Christ too much at home in the world?

Luke tells us that "… in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians." What were the disciples doing that caused them to be considered "Christ like?" Many times we can identify individuals from other religious groups but not members of the Church of Christ.

Are we afraid to be different? Looking at other groups we see traits that the Church of Christ should exhibit. For example, the Amish exhibit some traits found in the Bible that members of the Church of Chris do not exhibit. They dress in a very simple style. They avoid most basic ornamentation. Their dress is symbolic of their faith. Their clothing styles encourage separation from the world.The Amish are averse to any technology which they feel weakens the family structure. The conveniences that the rest of us take for granted such as electricity, television, automobiles, telephones and tractors are considered to be a temptation that could cause vanity, create inequality, or lead the Amish away from their close-knit community and, as such, are not encouraged or accepted. The Amish believe strongly in education, but only provide formal education in their own private schools. The Amish consider the family the most important social unit in their culture. Large families are common. The father is considered the head of the household. Amish marry Amish - no intermarriage is allowed. Divorce is not permitted and separation is very rare.

Maybe the Church of Christ needs to be more like the Amish or maybe more "Christ like."

Christians need to Compare what they Believe and Reality

Evolution does not make sense but does what Christians believe make any more sense?

Among their beliefs are: while humankind has a short lifespan God will torture for eternity all who do not say nice things about him; that God made humankind with specific needs such as oxygen, food, and water and that humankind should thank God for providing them lest he let humankind die. What is the purpose in that?

Christians believe God wants them to talk i.e. pray to him and that while he knows what they need he will not provide for those needs unless they ask. 

Christians believe God will test them just for them to see how they will react. Similar to a parent who trips a child to let the child learn how the child will react to being tripped.

Christians believe God will provide safe travel and that he will heal the sick while at the same time God will not protect the innocent of his creation such as the animals that are tortured and abused as are children.

God has never responded positively to a prayer for the restoration of a severed limb nor for cancer that does not respond favorably to chemotherapy.

Christians pray but do not expect. James says those who do that are unstable. 

Christians believe Jesus said "he that is immersed will be saved" but some say he meant sprinkling or pouring or even that it is unnecessary; Jesus said to the rich man "sell all you have and give to the poor and follow me" but some say he did not mean all and he certainly did not mean me; Jesus said "Go into all the world etc" but some say he meant send or stay behind and support; Jesus said he that loses his life will gain it but he that saves his life will lose it but some say he did not mean die for him.

Christians will say they believe in prayer but do not believe Jesus will help them in dangerous situations. It is easy to pray for safe travel but not so easy to pray for protection from men with guns.

Christians need to really look into what they believe and compare those beliefs with reality.

Elders or No Elders

 

 

Each congregation is autonomous. Each congregation recognizes that autonomy as long as the congregation does the same things in the same way they do. It is a hypocritical concept to say the least. Our congregation is in the process of attempting to find men within the congregation who are qualified as well as willing to serve as elder. We have gone through this process before and come up empty.

 

Our congregation has a monthly "men's meeting" that governs the business of the congregation with somewhere around 15 or 20 men attending the meeting that lasts less than 2 hours. If a man is selected as elder is not from that number it means we will have an elder who is either not interested in working with the men or is too busy. Either way he will be a problem.  We also have a monthly "book of the month" meeting that lasts 2 hours with 4 or 5 men attending plus a number of women. Each month we read one or more books of the bible and then meet for two hours to discuss the books. If a man is selected as elder is not from that number it means we will have an elder who is either not interested in taking advantage of an opportunity to discuss the bible with others of the same faith or is too busy. Either way he will be a problem.  

Should be interesting.

Christians Delude Themselves

During the ten years of our Iraq and Afghanistan wars over 6,300 flag draped coffins were sent home. During those same ten years there were over 20,000 coffins draped with baby blankets, victims of the parents or third parties. If God is not going to protect the innocent and defenseless just who is he going to protect?